To live you need thousands of reasons, but to die........

To live
You need thousands of reasons.

And to live,
You need to do thousands of deeds.

But to die, 
You don't need any reason
And you don't need to do any deed or act.

Just stop. 
That is where death is.

Stop to your acts,
Or to the acts of those
Making you live. 

******* 

Even otherwise,
Death makes 
Everyone and everything
Stop.

My Friend K P Mohandas's observations on my post titled " Mohammed or Jesus got no one to follow"

*Sanātana Dharma: The Timeless and Universal Way*

Hindus themselves prefer to use the _Sanskrit_ term *sanātana dharma* for their religious tradition. *Sanātana Dharma* means eternal and universal law or principle that governs everyone irrespective of culture, race, religion, belief and practices. 

These truths regarding the universal principle were divinely revealed to ancient _rishis_ (sages). For many centuries, they were passed down orally and only later written down, apparently around the start of the *Kali Yuga* when people's memories began to deteriorate.

The distinction of *dharma* from the Western sense of *religion* is crucial to understanding Hindu religious identity. To the extent that Hinduism carries with it the Western meaning of being a 'religion' the words distort Indian reality. 

In the West a religion is understood to be _conclusive_  — that is, it is the one and only true religion. Second, a religion is generally _exclusionary_  — that is, those who do not follow it are excluded from salvation. Finally, a religion is _separative_  — that is, to belong to it, one must not belong to another.

*Dharma, however, does not necessarily imply any of these*

*_Sanatana Dharma_*  comprises of spiritual laws which govern the human existence. _Sanatana Dharma_  is to human life what natural laws are to the physical phenomena. Just as the phenomena of gravitation existed before it was discovered, *the spiritual laws of life are eternal laws* which existed before they were discovered by the ancient rishi (sages) for the present age during the Vedic period. _Sanatana Dharma_  declares that *something cannot come out of nothing* and, therefore, the universe itself is the manifestation of the Divine being.

Traditionally *Sanatan Dharma* signifies the dynamic sum of ALL the knowledge of ALL the diverse traditions of Greater Hindusthan, if you will, since the beginning of time.  

It is not something one man or woman can put their hands around, or know or master in a lifetime.  Traditional people think of dharma much in the same way modern people think of science.

Reply to my brother Razak's observations on my earlier post "Mohammed or Jesus got no one to follow"

Dear Razak,

Ignorance is everyone's knowledge.

To the extend that nobody knows

The function and depth of a simple cell of their body.

Helplessness is everyone's strength and power.

To the extend that nobody is able to control

The function of a simple cell of their body.

Dear Razak.

I truly know and acknowledge 

The above simple and humble fact

Of ignorance of all.

And truly I believe and

I do try to make it clear that

God, the almighty, will also 

Know and acknowledge the above

Humble and simple fact.

-The fact of ignorance and helplessness 

Of everyone in this world

Of relatives and relativity.

So was I trying, dear Razak,

To say God will contract himself

For all those majority who are unable

To expand themselves to the level God is.

So as God is to each one

According to each one’s level and understanding,

In both their belief and disbelief.

So will God accept and understand all 

With all their helplessness and ignorance

Irrespective of their calling him or not calling him

With or without a name or too many different names.

So am I, Razak, extreme

About and against extremism of your monotheism, 

And about and against your exclusivity claim for Islam,

About and against confining God 

And giving full stop to God and his messages 

In one place, one book, one person and one time,

Of Mohammed and Quran as final and last,

Thereby denying God and his messages to all other

Places, books, persons and time.

So am I, Razak, un-defining and freeing God

To be a God of all definitions, as accessible to all

Or a God suiting to all definitions and talks about him.

A God talking, walking and working throughout

Through all and everything

Making everyone and everything

To be his prophets, instruments,

Tools and hands and words, and 

Using the same above said ignorance of relative world

As a cover against everyone and everything

In getting all these done, walked  and talked

Through everyone and everything,

Every time, everywhere...

So am I, Razak, intolerant too about and against

The intolerance of not accepting others' chance

To be right about and in front of the absolute

God and truth, with all their differences.

*************

Dear Razak, the question in core is:

How did Mohammed or Jesus

Or Krishna or Buddha or Mahaveera

Get reach and access to God and truth?

Was it with and through any support

Of any particular religion or path?

The answer is big "No"

To any particular religion or path.

If not so,

Which religion or path in particular

They were following to realize

What they could realize as truth and God?

The answer  again is big "No"

To any particular religion or path.

Mohammed or Jesus

Or Krishna or Buddha or Mahaveera

Did not get reach or access

To God and truth

With any support of any particular

Religion or path.

They did follow themselves

And did not follow any particular

Religion or path to be able

To realize and get enlightened with

What they could realize and get enlightened.

Rather they did realize and get enlightened

By rebelling and rivaling all existing religions and paths.

At least without following

Any particular path or religion

Though there came up

Many other paths and religion

In and by their name, after their death.

Dear Razak, it is,

Just because God and truth is openly open

As available and accessible to all equally

In whatever and whichever way

They sincerely approach and want to see.

Then the question again is, dear Razak:

Even otherwise,

What role and relevance is there for any religion

In helping anyone reach and access God and truth?

No role and relevance at all.

Furthermore to say,

God and truth are not at all

The properties of any religion

In particualr.

God and truth are

Equally each and everyone's property.

Believing or not believing

In God or truth

Doesn't matter at all.

And nobody has to want

To believe or disbelieve

In God or truth.

At least, it won't be

A requirement and demand

From God at all,

And it will never affect God at all

In his being or position or power.

And dear Razak,

If at all there is any role and relevance

For any particular religion or path

It is to deny the real sight, reach and access

Of and to God and truth.

*************

Yes Razak I am defending this truth and God of

Accepting and accommodating all equally true and wrong

Irrespective of their difference in religion, region or language

And irrespective of their becoming monotheists or polytheists

Or giving different names in different languages and places

I am defending just to deny the extremism, intolerance 

And exclusivity claim of any in particular

Just to say that the truth and God is

To and for all the same and forever the same,,

Talking and not taking, accessible and not accessible

To all equally in and with same density and intensity.

************ 

Razak, I have nothing else to say as a reply to you.

Especially when you prove yourself through your reply

All the points I was raising in my earlier message.

All your made up five criteria for the truth to be truth

Suits to the concept of a God and truth

Equally accessible to and accommodating all, all the time

Without any discrimination and without needing to resort to 

Any particular person or book in a particular time.

Such your criteria, dear Razak, suits to a God of

Conscience and common sense 

(Differently available to each different one

Accepting the limits and limitations of each)

As equally applicable to all in all the place and time.

Dear Razak,

It suits to a God never failing

And n ever becoming desperate, fearing and wanting 

And to a God without any full stop to talk, walk and interfere.

*************

True, Razak, we all need to go for introspection,

To know whether we do and talk 

For and by the people around us

And to know whether we are in strictly accordance

With our conscience and conviction,

Not with and for the conviction of others

Or  not as influenced by any other factors of

Birth or fame or money or power or security.

Dear Razak, such introspection only will give us

The chance of knowing our selves, soul.

The great self-knowledge and realization.

The self-knowledge and realization

Of knowing and realizing God, the absolute, thereby.

Based on such introspection only, dear Razak,

I am cent per cent and more sure that

I did not do or go for anything wrong throughout,

That I was and I am not at all influenced

While I talk about God and truth.

Dear Razak,

Could I have been viewed

As a wrong doer or deviated one

By the people of so called narrow defined religions  

With a narrow  defined and confined God and truth,

And because of their rigid and relative outlook or concept

About right and wrong.

Dear Razak, for sure, such their concepts will dictate

To consider me or anyone with absolute God and truth

As wrong doers and deviated people from right path.

So was I and so will I be wrong for them and you.

.

But, dear Razak, not in front of my conscience 

And not in front of the absolute God of totality.

In front of the absolute God of totality

And in front of my conscience and common sense

I was and I will be always right.

At least, Razak, you have to know

God, the almighty, the absolute

Doesn't go with narrow concept and definition 

Of right and wrong of and from relative world.

With kind regards,

Raheem

My brother Razak's reply/observation on my message/post addressing him.

I do post herebelow
My brother Razak's reply/observations
On my message/post addressing him with the title
 "Mohammed or Jesus did not get any one to Follow. 
Even Buddha and Krishna did not"

Dear Raheem,  Assalaamu Alaikum

Hope and pray you and your family are doing well over there.

I am not writing this as a reply to your “discourse”.  I personally
don’t think it warrants or deserves any response which you haven’t
sought for.  Rather I would like to share with you some of my own
observations  on the very old “subjects” that you have raked up newly
in the hope that it may work as a prelude of introspection both in me
and you.

First of all,  before I do share my observations point by point,  I
want to make one thing loud and lucid with all due respect and
humbleness  that I am not sitting with answers even for my own all
questions, leave alone others..  And I know I won’t be and never will
be able to have answers for all the questions  as long as I remain a
human being with the faculty of power of thinking since power of
thinking is diametrically contradictory to the  concept of
omniscience.  So, definitely I will continue to think and uncover the
realm of ignorance to re-iterate once and again that I even don’t know
many things of some thing that I  ‘know’ very little, especially
related to the metaphysics, leave alone the things that I am
absolutely ignorant of.

Nonetheless and notwithstanding the above, I am very much aware of the
life and its goal as a whole and in this respect I am nobody’s poodle.
I don’t want to deny the whole which I am convinced of intellectually,
rationally and logically  since I don’t know the answers for some of
its details.  As part of my own experiment with the truth ,  I
approached the subject in an analytical way and followed the auditing
procedure..  I developed criteria.  And I came to conclusion that the
truth should meet five criteria.  Firstly, it has to be universal.
Secondly,  it has to be one and same for all time.  Thirdly, the way /
mean it came to us or got revealed also has to be same without any
discrimination due to the difference in means from generation to
generation.  Fourthly,  the goal that it sets also has to be same for
all regardless of the difference in place and time.  Fifthly, it has
to match with our own nature and has to be in communion with the
natural system.  After doing this,  I tried to measure and analyze
each and every system, way of life  and ideologies that I  am aware
of.  I found only Islam compatible fully with all the criteria and I
came to know in  nutshell that all the prophets had promulgated the
same.  Then, with a questioning spirit,  I really did an audit of the
final prophet who claimed to be the final prophet and invited people
to the same universal system of Islam compatible with the nature.
First, I wanted to know if he had claimed the prophet-hood or was it
imposed upon him.  Then,  I checked his honesty, integrity, sincerity
and devotion to the mission he shouldered.  Afterwards, I asked myself
if he had given any standing proof for his prophet hood which I also
can touch and test.  I had tried to go through the proof vertically
and horizontally, in depth and breadth. I had compared his own
language with the language of Quran that he had brought as the only
proof for his prophet hood.  I saw the proof also claiming to be the
proof of his prophet hood and challenging since it is the only proof.
 I saw and got convinced both the languages that he spoke and he got
revealed flowing from two different and distinctive streams.  I got
astonished with the distinctive nature of the Styles, syntaxes,
structures and constructions of both the streams.   I understood  the
prophet himself  was not able to speak in that language throughout his
life. I went through the prophesies it had made and verified it
historically.  I wondered about the vast subjects it had dealt with.
I found even a spark of its recitation catching fire in my soul.  I
saw it a miniature of universe made of divine diction.  I understood
the prophet is not a mythological character and can be read in the
complete light of the history. I couldn't help looking into the model
society he had brought forth without reverence.  I made a research on
the claim he and the proof he had brought explicitly made with regard
to the predictions about his coming in the earlier scriptures.
Finally, I got convinced empirically and rationally about his
prophet-hood and the message he brought corresponding to the human
history and my own nature.   Once I got convinced of his prophet-hood
and the proof that he had brought,  It became only a matter of
syllogism for me to believe in everything he or his proof had
mentioned.

Considering the title that you have given for your message,  I am
sorry to say I didn’t want a reply from you in whats app or any other
way.  And sorry to say I didn’t ask any question for your answer or
reply as well.   Moreover,  your 24 page “reply”  didn’t  deal with
the subject that we were discussing, except in a peripheral way.  You
seem to have jumped into some other “discourses”.  I am not sure if
you have gone all cock-a-hoop by writing this while whoever reads it
probably will think  of you living in Cloud-cuckoo-land!  I felt
re-imposition of such a long “ discourse” which I had went through
before in various contexts with the pretext of  a “reply” very much
repugnant and distasteful.  The old that I had read before and” the
new” that you have sent in the guise and ruse of “reply”  proved
“oneness of all” that you seem to be hypothesizing !  I am sure you
will understand my difficulty in going through those 24 pages and to
mark ‘points’ for which I need to give my observations.  I felt it as
if searching for a needle in the haystack.  My hectic and hefty
official and  organizational works, a heavy project that I have
shouldered myself itself keep me very much busy, apart from the back
paid I do get sitting long in front of the laptop.  However, I have
tried to cover everything.  If I have missed anything, it is
inadvertent and not deliberate.

On discussions and debates:  I don’t think discussions and debates are
always an exercise in futility, though it may dwindle into mess, fuss
and chaos depending upon the nature of the parties who engage in it .
 I don’t think debates create only enmity! I was tickled pink to read
your statement on this!  In my opinion debate creates positive changes
in our lives and triggers new thoughts and novel ideas provided we
have earnest interest and honest intention to know the truth .  The
pre-requisite for this is to empty ourselves from egoism and cultivate
the habit of seeing the things through others eyes.     I think we all
need to know how to agree to disagree respectfully.  Unfortunately you
are ostensibly taking wrong examples  of Kanthapuram like people and
flawed analogies of Abu Jahl’s defense of his belief.. I rather would
like to assess and evaluate based on the merit rather than giving a
verdict on  every body who debates is like Kanthapuram and whoever
defends his position is like Abu Jahl..  At the same time, you appear
to be forgetting that you are also trying to defend your position on
various issues, though it is through flawed analogies and fallacious
parallels.  After all, we didn’t start the discussion and debate with
you  in any forum.  You started it when you had commented on an
observation I had posted in Rabiath group,  you continued it when you
again said Hanoon was beating about bush whereas he just happened to
give you a very gentle, intelligent and fitting response.

On Interpretation, Ocean and Cup:  For me Quranic verses are  signs
(“ayaat”) parallel to the natural phenomena ( Ayath).  Quran uses the
same word of Ayath for the both.  So, the Quran is a universe of
knowledge and ideas made of divine signs ( aayaats)  corresponding to
the physical universe with natural phenomena.  A Sign is only a
launching pad for human thought and never ends there and cease to be a
sign if it ends in the very beginning itself.  This is applicable for
both the natural phenomena and the Quranic verses.  In the natural
phenomena, when we revisit into the same thing we keep on inventing
many new things from time to time while the phenomenon remains same.
The same is applicable for Quran as the final testament and relevance
of interpretation thereof.  In each and every natural phenomenon,
regardless of what a small or huge it is, when you go into its depth
it expands into a miniature of universe itself.  For me the Quranic
verses also look same.  Quran presents a unique and beautiful  system
of Islam which is exemplified in the nature also.   Through all these
parallels, as we easily understand regardless of whether we agree with
it or not,  Islam juxtaposes itself as human face of the universe
and/or natural face of human being.

On Apostacy and Capital punishment / “ Warning and Threat :   In the
case of the subject that we were discussing, I didn’t make any
interpretation at all as such.   I was quoting the verses that
explicitly promulgated the freedom of belief.  Quite contrary to what
you had mentioned in your “reply”, all those verses ( In Baqara and
Al-Nisa) were revealed after establishment of Islamic state in Medina.
I can quote even many more verses in this respect.  At the same time,
you have to note that  there is no single verse in Quran that dictates
capital punishment for apostacy.   In history, during the time of
Prophet or Khulafaau Rashideen, not a single person was punished due
to apostacy.  Nifaaq is amost tantamount to treason especially when it
becomes organized  and it had and has been  prevalent throughout the
Islamic history from the very beginning  and mostly for political
reasons.  Even Abdulla Ibn Ubayyu bin Sulool, the leader of organized
NIfaq, was not given any punishment.  Musailima had written a  letter
to the prophet Mohammad claiming his prophet-hood .  Prophet Mohammad
didn’t implement any punishment on Musailima except giving a fitting
reply in writing.   Musailima was killed in a war ( Yamaama) initiated
by him during the reign of Abu Bakr.  It was not only Musailima who
had claimed the prophet-hood.  His wife Saja and another person
Thulayha Al Asadi, who had embraced Islam before ( and not killed
because of his apostacy!), also had claimed prophet hood like
Musailima.  Saja believed in Islam after the death of Musalima.  (That
itself shows the sincerity of the claim of Musailima as well!)
Thulaiha also got killed in a war initiated by him and his followers.
Dear Raheem, I am an introspective person and eager to correct myself
if I am wrong in my statement .  I really wonder about and ponder over
your attitude in this respect.  Despite having all these scriptural
proofs and substantiating historical evidences against the argument
you had raised , you seem to be keeping on saying the same old thing
arrogantly doing omission and commission,  distortion and
misappropriation to make things fit into your schemes..  I  am not
here to judge on your intention though I can’t help thinking why a
person has to behave like this. I thought you were an introspective
person and you always go through the correction process.  I am sorry
to say that you were seen flogging  a dead horse and your attitude
belied my expectation.

Same applies on “warning and threat”.   I don’t want to  repeat what I
had mentioned in my previous posting.  You apparently seem to have
struck dumb.  At the same time, you keep on using the same word of
“threat”.  If you have anything to contradict me with proof in this
respect from scriptural, philological or philosophical perspective ,
please let me know  instead of levelling allegations and imposing
something that is not there and elaborating on it..!   In the whole
body of Quran, you cannot see a single word of “threatening” ( Arabic
word – Thahdeed) or any of its any conjugated form.  The word
repeatedly used by Quran in this respect is that of ”warning” (
Indhaar).  The word “threat” denotes the interest of the one who
threatens whereas the word “warning” implies the interest of the
warned.  The word “threat” doesn’t necessarily involve any kind of
definite knowledge on the part of the person who threatens about what
is threatened by him while the word “warning” denotes the knowledge of
the Warner on what is warned.   Amongst all the aesthetic names and
attributes Allah has used to describe Himself, there is no single name
that denotes Him as a punisher or chastiser.  At the same time, the
path that we opt to lead our life will have its own natural end
depending upon the nature of the path that we choose.  The Omniscient
who has arranged everything for us to live on this planet  and many
other resources, amenities and facilities as the privileges of the
freedom that we do enjoy, shows us the path to lead our life also and
warns us and gives us good tidings about both natural ends of the
freedom as well.  When God shows us the path, you say “ No I am not in
need of it.. I am able to live as per my will and instinct and God’s
love is not befitting for His stature and it looks like schematic”!
At the same time, others can say “ no, we are in need of guidance and
God should have shown us the path instead of leaving us in mess and
chaos”.  You term  God’s Forgiveness as discounted sales, Generosity
as “offer” and I don’t know what you will call His  kindness, mercy
and compassion!.  At the same time you keep on blaming Him imposing on
Him a misnomer  in terms of “punisher”  and “Chastiser”!.  I hope you
are not going haywire.

On your question whether giving punishment to the wrong doing human
being  as part of deliverance of absolute justice is befitting quality
to the Almighty God, I am sorry to say that I am not here to decide on
what qualities God should have or shouldn’t have.  I feel as an humble
finite that I am not really worthy of doing it on the Infinite!  At
the same time,  logically and rationally, I rather would have wondered
if such a system of deliverance of justice was not there especially
taking into consideration of the blatant gross injustice rampant in
our mundane life.  If such a system of deliverance of absolute justice
was not there, there is no point or relevance in saying that Gold is
All Seeing and All Hearing as far as human life is concerned.. The
question should be if we are accountable or not for our freedom that
we do enjoy with lot of distinctive privileges among all other
creatures on this planet.   I think the inbuilt natural system of
preservation of all our actions and words not only in the domains
external to us but even in our cells (cellular memory) cements the
concept of accountability.   Your question on whether such a human
life in Hereafter world is becoming for the almighty God can be
extended even to our mundane life also.  If the destructions through
earthquakes, hurricanes, eruptions of lava, floods, storms, cyclones,
contagious diseases becoming for God?  I don’t have any answer for it
even though I do see it with my own naked eyes..? In Hereafter life,
at least it is part of deliverance of absolute justice?  What will you
say about those epidemics and disasters that you see in this mundane
life and people suffering from it?   Your question can be extended to
some other levels also..    What is the point in God keeping on
creating things like ants and gnats,  bees and bugs, sloths and
snails,  flies and flamingoes, mosquitos and micro organs?  Isn’t it
Godly childishness? Doesn’t He got any other job?  Does it make sense
for the Almighty God to create such “ugly” creatures!?   I know we can
go any extent  with these type of questions and I don’t know whether
we will be able to reach anywhere in finding answers for these kind of
questions!  But I don’t want to deny something that I am convinced of
only because of my own limits and limitations in  perceiving  the
wisdom behind it.

On Conscience  and Common Sense / Revelation and Inklings/ finality of
the prophethood :

Yes, conscience is a divine inscription encrypted in our spirit and/or
soul ( Quranic word -3ahd).  One can validate his life with his own
conscience, in its pristine form .  At the same time there is no way
to validate one’s conscience by another person.  Hence, one’s
conscience won’t be and cannot be a proof for another person at all.
Moreover, one’s conscience can get covered by cobwebs of his own
fallacious and deceptive thoughts, contaminated and corrupted with his
own actions and adapted with the vicious and malicious surroundings he
is in, though it can be scrubbed, cleaned and recovered through
introspections.  A person’s conscience in its pristine and immaculate
form always inevitably corresponds with his own nature.   I can only
request you one thing in this respect which I am inured and accustomed
to do.  Sit back and ask your own conscience in solitude if the things
that you believe and do correspond to your own conscience in its
pristine and immaculate form.  Common sense cannot be so uncommon.
Ask yourselves, if the things that you say makes sense to the common
people.  As far as we are concerned,  Islamic monotheism,  Human
prophet hood for guiding human being and deliverance of absolute
justice in the Hereafter life make sense to us all.   Inklings  and
intuitions are and never equivalent to revelation.  Revelation is a
claim always supported and substantiated with the proofs while
intuitions and inklings are not so.     Revelations  never can be
wrong whereas inklings and intuitions can go wrong.  Revelation always
will be consistent in its message and never will contradict each other
while the ideas coming out of the inklings and intuitions can
contradict one another.  Revelation is not the product of human mind.
Rather, it is sent down through the external metaphysical phenomenon
whereas inklings and intuitions as propellers of thought are probably
our own brain waves.   Like conscience in its pristine form, the
revelation also always inevitably will be in communion with our own
nature whereas the intuition and inklings can go awry.

So, on your question regarding why revelation has stopped with the
coming of Prophet Mohammad,  I think  the logic behind it is very
simple to understand.  Everything, that has got beginning will have an
end.  Prophet hood is not an exception, especially considering the
probable fact of fast nearing Day of Reckoning.  Secondly, there is no
need of a new prophet since the message revealed to the final prophet
has been preserved intact in the scripture without any commission or
omission, as the final testament, and his life has been recorded in
detail and can be read in the complete light of history.  Five hundred
thousand people were studied and analyzed, then filtered, sifted and
sieved based on the scientifically developed criteria just for
ensuring the veracity of events that took place in his life, words he
spoke, actions he took and consent he gave.  This itself is a unique
experience  in recording of any person’s life in the history.  No
other historical personalities’ life is recorded in such details as
recorded the life of Prophet Mohammad.   The message he propagated is
not in his physical body, rather it is in the content of what he got
revealed and in his life.   His mission was not limited to any tribe
or nation.  Rather, it was for the whole of humanity, regardless of
whether we agree with it or not.  Among his very first followers
itself, we see the roman, the Persian, Ethiopian and Arab people.  The
language he had spoken is still alive.   There are tens of millions of
followers to pass the torch as well in each and every nook and corner
of the world .

I hope I have covered all the topics that u have raked up and you will
not get hold of the wrong end of the stick. You can keep on arguing
until you are blue in the face.  I don’t know if anybody will be able
to take any leaf out of your book and lead the life.  As usual, I
sincerely wish and hope you will carefully read this .  You may
correct me if I am wrong at any place  in my observations to
facilitate me to undergo an introspection if required on my part.  I
assure you that you won’t find me an intransigent once you are able to
convince me logically and rationally with proof.  Likewise, I hope you
also will undergo an introspection and do a self audit of your
arguments and correct yourselves if you find anything to be corrected.

With respect and prayers,

Razak